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Post by Mo Buck Writers Association on May 26, 2019 19:04:02 GMT -7
As announced in the James Morgan Show (that you can find by clicking on this link: The James Morgan Show), I'm creating this new thread to discuss and to know your opinion regarding the rule change we want to implement for Season 2. You can find the poll above. The reasons for the rule change are discussed on the James Morgan Show. |
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Post by dgallo on May 26, 2019 19:15:14 GMT -7
I would lean toward a limit of somewhere between 1000-1200 words as the absolute maximum, which would keep episodes less than two pages (generally 600 words equates to one page). If there are going to be 18 shows to try to keep up with each week, I personally wouldn't want to have to read potentially 36 pages to do so. I already had to stop keeping up with Drive because of how long each episode is (pretty sure each episode has been around 2000 words, which would make each one over three pages long - which is just way too long for me to read each episode of).
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Post by Admin on May 26, 2019 19:16:32 GMT -7
I completely agree with dgallo's point. I have had similar issues trying to keep up with some of the longer shows. |
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Post by Chad Taylor on May 26, 2019 20:14:12 GMT -7
Dwight makes a great point, especially considering the jump in quantity of shows.
Writing for TV is inherently different than writing for film so it makes sense for LRTV to provide a unique challenge in conveying plot in bite-sized chunks. And this is coming from someone who planned to have a show with 1500-2000 word episodes next season. 1200 seems like a good spot.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 3:30:32 GMT -7
I disagree. I think the limit now it better suited. Now I agree it doesn't mean every episode should be 2000 but the movie limit is 4000 words so TV is basically the same version of movies so it should be 2000. There has to be a better reason than "I don't wanna read too many pages" that's just silly considering as need to almost 4000 on an almost regular basis.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 3:35:19 GMT -7
WTH is wrong with 2000 words? I'm already have way done with my series now you wanna make it harder for me? Thats total crap to hear that! And just cause "it's too much reading"? Seriously? If this rule changes I don't wanna do what I had planned to do. I feel like this restricts me as a writer and if you don't wanna read shows like Drive then don't read them. Don't make it everyone else's problem...
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Post by Admin on May 27, 2019 3:49:23 GMT -7
I disagree. I think the limit now it better suited. Now I agree it doesn't mean every episode should be 2000 but the movie limit is 4000 words so TV is basically the same version of movies so it should be 2000. There has to be a better reason than "I don't wanna read too many pages" that's just silly considering as need to almost 4000 on an almost regular basis. A general standard movie length is around 100-120 minutes, while an hour-long television episode is generally 42 minutes (so less than half the standard movie length). 40 minutes would be 33.3% of 120 minutes, while 1200 words would be 30% of 4000 words, so the math is there to support a max word count of 1200 words for LRTV episodes - whether you like it or not. 4000 words for the films is the absolute MAXIMUM - and certainly not the preferred length - and the studio is actually considering lowering that as well to be more considerate of our critics' time. They have lives, as do Mo and myself. It takes a lot of time and energy to keep LRF and LRTV running smoothly. When pitches (film or television) are excessively long, it takes time away from other aspects of the games as well as our personal lives. If you have a TV episode idea that would be over the word limit, you can simply spread it out over multiple episodes - simple as that. And NO, there doesn't have to be a better reason than "I don't wanna read too many pages". If you don't like the rules, you don't have to partake. I have a life, I have a job (more than one in fact), and I shouldn't have to take extra time away from things I want to do just because you don't want to edit your scripts, @wmainwright. So how about a little consideration for those of us who are gracious enough to take the time to be running the games? |
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Post by Admin on May 27, 2019 3:57:46 GMT -7
WTH is wrong with 2000 words? I'm already have way done with my series now you wanna make it harder for me? Thats total crap to hear that! And just cause "it's too much reading"? Seriously? If this rule changes I don't wanna do what I had planned to do. I feel like this restricts me as a writer and if you don't wanna read shows like Drive then don't read them. Don't make it everyone else's problem... It's not "everyone else's problem" it's YOUR problem if you don't want to follow the rules of the game. You clearly don't have any respect for the time of others. We're not just talking about the audience here - they have the choice to not follow your show. Mo and the critics have to read EVERY EPISODE. They should not have to spend extra time reading your pitches just because you don't respect their time. You're acting inconsiderate towards the valuable time of those who have to read and review and post pitches, and I take great offense to that. |
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Post by Critic Jeff Stockton on May 27, 2019 4:05:31 GMT -7
Speaking as a critic here. I find @wmainwright and @hallowayne completely out of line here. I take pride in giving everything I review a very thorough reading. I also only read the first couple episodes of Drive (not only were the episodes overly long, but they weren't particularly interesting either, in my professional opinion), but I can say that those episodes easily could have been cut in half without losing any pertinent plot points. It would not only make for an easier read, but frankly would make for a stronger, tighter story. You two are not only doing the critics, Mo and Phil a disservice, but you and HG are also doing yourselves a disservice by not putting out the best work you possibly could. Some of the films from you guys have been unnecessarily long and easily could have been cut way down without losing anything important, and I think it's safe to assume the same can be said of your TV work.
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Post by H.G. Hansen on May 27, 2019 7:34:23 GMT -7
Well it's great to wake up to find this going on... I gotta say first I apologise to Mo for being an absolute pain in the butt for not writing all the episodes like he asked to which Jeff is right about Drive and I honestly hate myself for not being more organized cause it hasn't come to anymore that I wanted it to.
Secondly, I've working 60 hours a week on 10 hour shifts lately so I haven't had time to catch up cause I either go to sleep or watch Hulu, which I could use to finish everything I need to do so this doesn't happen again. Not making excuses cause I can clearly see I'm a big part of the problem as is Hallowayne and Willem. Which reminds me...
Third, you guys ARE out of line. I didn't like having to fit with a word limit but I'm doing it. Now are they too long? Maybe... But i ask myself if I like what I put out there then I don't need to worry about hearing how it's too long. I see guys like Mo, Chad, Ann, and John do what they do and I can't help but be inspired to try harder at accomplishing what I wanna write within the rules and the word limit. I see how they do it and it makes me wanna try.
So I really think you guys need to take a step back cause you're not only making yourself look bad but me as well for I recommended you guys to join here. So far Grim and you guys are making it worse by making the comments that you have. Again I apologise to Mo and Phil for my procrastination and for my attitude. And apologise for these two as well.
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Post by H.G. Hansen on May 27, 2019 7:37:26 GMT -7
Speaking as a critic here. I find @wmainwright and @hallowayne completely out of line here. I take pride in giving everything I review a very thorough reading. I also only read the first couple episodes of Drive (not only were the episodes overly long, but they weren't particularly interesting either, in my professional opinion), but I can say that those episodes easily could have been cut in half without losing any pertinent plot points. It would not only make for an easier read, but frankly would make for a stronger, tighter story. You two are not only doing the critics, Mo and Phil a disservice, but you and HG are also doing yourselves a disservice by not putting out the best work you possibly could. Some of the films from you guys have been unnecessarily long and easily could have been cut way down without losing anything important, and I think it's safe to assume the same can be said of your TV work. You're right, Jeff... I've been struggling with the show cause I didn't plan it all out. It's what I tell some of my friends all the time that it bugs me that I haven't done a better job. The show means something to me and I somehow lost it along the way. I started it off so great and then lost steam the more I went on. Hopefully your brutally honest words will spark some sort of creativity for the second season. Idk if not, I'll give my spot to someone else who deserves it and has more time than I do. |
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Post by Mo Buck Writers Association on May 27, 2019 14:50:21 GMT -7
Let me just start by saying that I expected this backlash, but to a certain extent, what just happened in the past few hours surprised me. I waited a bit for things to settle down and to give the chance to anyone who had something to say to say it before I finally speak about the matter. I chose my words carefully and thought about it deeply, so what I’m about to say is not something I made up on the spot.
I’ve dedicated a good part of my time for the past year and a half to Last Resort Films and as it was said when I won the honorary Golden Reel, LRF may not be where it is now if it weren’t for me. I’ve decided, despite my personal problems, to start what you know today as Last Resort Television. I anticipated a heavier workload than I had before and I underestimated it A LOT. Setting up everything takes up an insane amount of time and seeing this I want to tip my hat to Admin who keeps up with the schedule no matter what happens.
Setting up Last Resort TV for a week can take up to two hours in a normal week and we collectively put about twice that time in review week. We wanted to make our first Golden Views memorable and we put about 10-12 men-hours to work on it and we very well know that it’s not going to be in par with what we see for our cinematic counterpart. I do hope you realise the insane amount of time it takes and remember that none of us speak English naturally. We learned it over the years and we practiced it, but still, I think it’s harder for us to write everything in English than it is for you, which adds another layer of work on top of it all.
We wanted to give you more creative freedom at first and we set up the limit to 2,000 words and only one show goes to the limit, the others have settled for a more tolerable and manageable 1,000 to 1,250 words. Do I think the longer your show is the better it’s going to be? Absolutely not. In fact, the best shows are the ones within the limit.
The limit for Season 2 has been set to 1250, to give a chance to our writers to continue to diligently follow our shows and for our backstage workers to continue to deliver and keep up with the already crazy pace we imposed ourselves. As Admin once said, rules are established to be followed, not argued (or something like that). I made this poll to know what the best approach would be and I want to thank Chad, Dwight, Jeff and Phil for giving their opinion in a respectful manner.
It brings me to the point of Willem Mainwright and T.F.W Hallowayne. Your comments are way out of the line and I wasn’t really sure how to react to it. Frankly, I’m not sure what you are still doing here. Ever since you joined, you’ve been complaining about every rule change and criticism towards your movies. You are also against rule changes in television when you aren’t even writing for LR TV. You claim that you have your season entirely written, but I haven’t seen it or even heard about it until you wrote it in this very thread and without solid, I’m not ready to believe you. It takes a lot of dedication to keep this running and you don’t seem to understand the concept. 2,000 words per show, with 11 shows in schedule for ten weeks adds up to 220,000 words, which is about 366 pages of text that you sometimes have to read twice to critic it and sometimes even three times, because of the delay between two episodes. If you throw in 18 shows at 2,000 words for 10 weeks, it adds up to about 600 Word pages of texts. I don’t even have the time to read a novel, do you think I seriously have the time to read all that? I have two jobs and I’m going to college and I’m investing a lot of free time into Last Resort Television, but that is just too much. That’s not even counting the one writer who keeps sending me his episodes at crazy hours. You don’t think it bothers you to search through the text is Dominic Cooper appears in this episode at first, but do it five, six, seven times in a row and it gets on your nerves, especially when you wake up five hours later, but you keep going, because the episode is supposed to come out tomorrow. That’s even worse when we’re supposed to review the show and it gets delivered late, because I need to send it to three of my friends and then one, two, or all of them are understandably sleeping, so you get up at five and hope you have a response and plan the show at five in the morning between two bites of toast, but NO! They are still sleeping tight and you get the reviews at nine or something. The deadline is in about an hour, but you’re at work now and you don’t have access to Blogger, the site is blocked. You call your friend in panic and he needs to post it for you. He doesn’t have access to the Metascores logo, because it’s in a shared document with Admin. You see my point? It doesn’t happen magically, and boy I wish it could. But you know what my problem is, I keep doing it, because you are expected to deliver and you would be the first one to complain we don’t post during a week or so.
I’ve been dealing with enough negative things in my life for the past few years and Last Resort has somehow worked as a safe place for me, where I could share, create and just let things off my chest. My friends joined me in this unexpected adventure and I’m glad they did and most of you are welcoming and polite, but some of you, and that’s a marginal minority, seem to have a problem with respect, understanding and boundaries.
Hallowayne and Mainwright, your actions could go unpunished, but for the lack of respect you showed to the organizers of both Last Resort Films and Last Resort TV, I am definitively banning you from the Last Resort Television airwaves. You can join your buddy who suffered the same fate but nobody heard about it. I’m not going to let this experience be ruined by you two.
I hope my message is clear.
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Post by jackryder2 on May 27, 2019 23:10:45 GMT -7
I don't know if it's appropriate time to pop in as also I am not a regular contributor to LRF and LRF TV. I think what Dwight has suggested is correct way to go(I have accidentally voted for 1250 in the poll) with exceptions to season opener and finale.
To be honest some of the posts were really disrespectful. Everyone should consider how everything impacts each and every member of LRF and be respectful towards each other as the admin and background people work on this in their free time.
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